تويت
@شنوده:clement, origen,Irenæus لم يعترفوا بقانونية راعى هرماس أو رسالة برنابا@
http://www.4shared.com/file/47842865/8bee5c96/__________.html
هذا تسجيل للبابا شنوده يقول فيه أن اكليمندس الاسكندرى و أوريجانوس و اريناؤوس لم يعترفوا بقانونية راعى هرماس و رسالة برنابا , و أنهم ذكروها فقط ككتب موجوده فى ايامهم لا أكثر , ثم يقول أن هذه الأشياء تحتوى على اشياء لا يمكن قبولها لاهوتيا , و يبدو أن هذا معيار القبول و الرفض عند البابا شنوده .
و الحقيقه أنا أريد أن افهم هل الفكر اللاهوتى يستمد من الكتاب المقدس , أم أن الفكر اللاهوتى بنى أولا ثم تم اختيار الكتب لتكون مقدسه على حسب ما يوافق هذا الفكر اللاهوتى؟؟؟؟
المهم ما علينا ..هذه شهادات تثبت أن ما ذكره البابا شنوده من عدم اعتراف هؤلاء الأباء بقانونية هذه الأسفار خطأ , و أنهم اعتبروها قانونية فعلا .
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07268b.htm
among the earlier Fathers. St. Irenaeus and Tertullian (in his Catholic days) cite the "Shepherd" as Scripture. Clement of Alexandria constantly quotes it with reverence, and so does Origen, who held that the author was the Hermas mentioned by St. Paul, Romans 16:14. He says the work seems to him to be very useful, and Divinely inspired; yet he repeatedly apologizes, when he has occasion to quote it, on the ground that "many people despise it".
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03274a.htm
Origen and his school
Origen's travels gave him exception opportunities to know the traditions of widely separated portions of the Church and made him very conversant with the discrepant attitudes toward certain parts of the New Testament. He divided books with Biblical claims into three classes:
* those universally received;
* those whose Apostolicity was questions;
* apocryphal works.
In the first class, the Homologoumena, stood the Gospels, the thirteen Pauline Epistles, Acts, Apocalypse, I Peter, and I John. The contested writings were Hebrews, II Peter, II and III John, James, Jude, Barnabas, the Shepherd of Hermas, the Didache, and probably the Gospel of the Hebrews. Personally, Origen accepted all of these as Divinely inspired,
http://www.ntcanon.org/Irenaeus.shtml
Irenaeus writes in Adversus Haereses:
Truly, then, the Scripture declared, which says, "First of all believe that there is one God, who has established all things, and completed them, and having caused that from what had no being, all things should come into existence. He who contains all things, and is Himself contained by no one." [Book 2, First Commandment, of the Shepherd of Hermas]. Rightly also has Malachi said among the prophets: "Is it not one God who hath established us? Have we not all one Father?" (4.20.2. of Adversus Haereses)
This passage, where Irenaeus calls the Shepherd of Hermas 'scripture', is mentioned by [Grant] p. 153 and [Metzger] p. 155.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/clement-stromata-book1.html
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf02.vi.iv.i.xxix.html
Divinely, therefore, the power which spoke to Hermas by revelation said, "The visions and revelations are for those who are of double mind, who doubt in their hearts if these things are or are not."
Stromata – Book I - Chap. XXIX
اكليمندس الاسكندرى فى كتابه المتفرقات او الستروماتا
http://www.ntcanon.org/Clement.shtml
Clement and the Epistle of Barnabas
According to [Metzger]:
He [Clement] refers to Orpheus as 'the theologian', and speaks of Plato as being 'under the inspiration of God'. Even the Epicurean Metrodorus uttered certain words 'divinely inspired'. It is not surprising then that, that he can quote passages as inspired from the epistles of Clement of Rome and of Barnabas, the Shepherd of Hermas, and the Apocalypse of Peter. (p. 134)
و على العموم منعا للاطاله :
http://www.elforkan.com/7ewar/showthread.php?t=5464
موضوع لأخينا مجاهد فى الله فيه الكفايه .
هذا تسجيل للبابا شنوده يقول فيه أن اكليمندس الاسكندرى و أوريجانوس و اريناؤوس لم يعترفوا بقانونية راعى هرماس و رسالة برنابا , و أنهم ذكروها فقط ككتب موجوده فى ايامهم لا أكثر , ثم يقول أن هذه الأشياء تحتوى على اشياء لا يمكن قبولها لاهوتيا , و يبدو أن هذا معيار القبول و الرفض عند البابا شنوده .
و الحقيقه أنا أريد أن افهم هل الفكر اللاهوتى يستمد من الكتاب المقدس , أم أن الفكر اللاهوتى بنى أولا ثم تم اختيار الكتب لتكون مقدسه على حسب ما يوافق هذا الفكر اللاهوتى؟؟؟؟
المهم ما علينا ..هذه شهادات تثبت أن ما ذكره البابا شنوده من عدم اعتراف هؤلاء الأباء بقانونية هذه الأسفار خطأ , و أنهم اعتبروها قانونية فعلا .
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07268b.htm
among the earlier Fathers. St. Irenaeus and Tertullian (in his Catholic days) cite the "Shepherd" as Scripture. Clement of Alexandria constantly quotes it with reverence, and so does Origen, who held that the author was the Hermas mentioned by St. Paul, Romans 16:14. He says the work seems to him to be very useful, and Divinely inspired; yet he repeatedly apologizes, when he has occasion to quote it, on the ground that "many people despise it".
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03274a.htm
Origen and his school
Origen's travels gave him exception opportunities to know the traditions of widely separated portions of the Church and made him very conversant with the discrepant attitudes toward certain parts of the New Testament. He divided books with Biblical claims into three classes:
* those universally received;
* those whose Apostolicity was questions;
* apocryphal works.
In the first class, the Homologoumena, stood the Gospels, the thirteen Pauline Epistles, Acts, Apocalypse, I Peter, and I John. The contested writings were Hebrews, II Peter, II and III John, James, Jude, Barnabas, the Shepherd of Hermas, the Didache, and probably the Gospel of the Hebrews. Personally, Origen accepted all of these as Divinely inspired,
http://www.ntcanon.org/Irenaeus.shtml
Irenaeus writes in Adversus Haereses:
Truly, then, the Scripture declared, which says, "First of all believe that there is one God, who has established all things, and completed them, and having caused that from what had no being, all things should come into existence. He who contains all things, and is Himself contained by no one." [Book 2, First Commandment, of the Shepherd of Hermas]. Rightly also has Malachi said among the prophets: "Is it not one God who hath established us? Have we not all one Father?" (4.20.2. of Adversus Haereses)
This passage, where Irenaeus calls the Shepherd of Hermas 'scripture', is mentioned by [Grant] p. 153 and [Metzger] p. 155.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/clement-stromata-book1.html
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf02.vi.iv.i.xxix.html
Divinely, therefore, the power which spoke to Hermas by revelation said, "The visions and revelations are for those who are of double mind, who doubt in their hearts if these things are or are not."
Stromata – Book I - Chap. XXIX
اكليمندس الاسكندرى فى كتابه المتفرقات او الستروماتا
http://www.ntcanon.org/Clement.shtml
Clement and the Epistle of Barnabas
According to [Metzger]:
He [Clement] refers to Orpheus as 'the theologian', and speaks of Plato as being 'under the inspiration of God'. Even the Epicurean Metrodorus uttered certain words 'divinely inspired'. It is not surprising then that, that he can quote passages as inspired from the epistles of Clement of Rome and of Barnabas, the Shepherd of Hermas, and the Apocalypse of Peter. (p. 134)
و على العموم منعا للاطاله :
http://www.elforkan.com/7ewar/showthread.php?t=5464
موضوع لأخينا مجاهد فى الله فيه الكفايه .
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