تويت
السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته
اخوتي اخواني انا اقوم بالدعوه الى الاسلام في احد المنتديات الانجليزيه التي تقبل النقاش في الاديان وقد قمت بوضع موضوع يعرف بالاسلام بعنوان what is Islam??? وقام احد الاعضاء بالرد على الموضوع بكلام خطير جدا وقام عضو آخر ولا اظنه مسلم بالرد عليه وهذه ردودهم
رد العضو الأول {Laughing Bear}
I understand that you find comfort in your belief that Islam educates and protects you and your people, because you believe what is said about Islam.
However, I have found that there is a most unhappy difference between what is taught and the underlying purpose of Islam.
Being a man of knowledge from the Native American culture, I see the religions of Jehovah / Allah from a perspective that is independent of indoctrination and prejudice, a clarity which is very difficult for those who have been required to submit to cultural expectations.
Perhaps I should first acknowledge that most who were born into an Islamic culture are brave and decent people, and that their courage and decency is worthy of personal respect.
Having said that, now it must also be said that the one who instructed Abraham is the same as the one who dictated the Koran to Mohammed. And in the Koran, it is plainly stated that Allah claims Jesus as a true prophet, yet he also says that the central teachings of Jesus (that we are the children of God, and that unconditional love is a path to heaven) were wrong.
So Allah lays claim to 3 religions : Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. And these religions have waged bloody war on the others attributed to Allah throughout their history. Furthermore, there has been war within Islam ever since the death of Mohammed.
And the justification for that cruelty and destruction is there in the so-called holy books.
Anyone who does not agree is a heretic, and is doomed to eternal torture.
And the slaves of all-powerful Allah can gain favour with the one to whom you bow down,
by killing heretics, by sending them into the lake of fire before they are struck down by Allah.
Murder is part of the same religion that you regard as a blessing.
Why is there such contradiction - between love and vengeance in all the religions of the Jehovahs ?
Because compulsory contradictions make mankind helpless and stupid.
How can we think straight after reason has been destroyed by dogma ? Impossible !
One can either have true knowledge, which is characterised by an internal integrity,
or one can submit to believing contradictions, and lose the capacity for accurate thought.
The purpose of all the Jehovan religions is to degrade mankind.
To degrade human beings into domesticated primates, into obedient slaves
who docilely submit to outrageous indignities.
Do you not know that blood sacrifice is the currency of black magic ?
Yet, today, even though Isaac was spared the tribute demanded by Baal,
the halal and kosher methods of slaughter are those of blood sacrifice ;
Blood sacrifice to the dark lords, the race of reptilian predators who for centuries
demanded unquestioning submission to their ruthless rule.
Submission and blind obedience is the true nature of Islam.
That is why the teachings of Jesus were shouted down by the propaganda of Saul of Tarsus.
To prevent us from having true knowledge of what it is to be of the same lineage
as the one who breathed forth spacetime so that consciousness could grow and prosper
and innovate new insight and wisdom.
Your dream of paradise is too small and crooked to contain the reality of who we truly are.
And knowing this is the beginning of an opportunity to escape the prison of self-denia
رد عليه العضو الآخر{ Msafwan } بهذا الكلام
I don't think religion promote violence, it just allowed violence to occur. Human doesn't need religion to be violent because they're innately violent! (see the native tribe of Suri), but, if without some moral dogma; human would torture, mutilate and kill people and animal at their own discretion. Religion did not deny this nature, nor do it aim to expunge this behaviour... but it lay-out some rule and etiquette to be violence. For example; (most common etiquette is
you CAN kill people who kill your relatives and family, but you may not hurt your own religious people (- this may sounds like cronyism and irrational violence... thus maybe inappropriate in urban setting).
you CAN kill people who kill your relatives and family, but you may not hurt your own religious people (- this may sounds like cronyism and irrational violence... thus maybe inappropriate in urban setting).ثم ادرج رابط فيه مقاطع فيديو لبرنامج وثائقي عن القبائل التي يتحدث عنها لكن لم ادرجه لأن فيه ما لا يليق بمنتدانا المحافظ
واكمل بعد الرابط رده بهذا الكلام
Religion did not cause terrorism. Terrorism arise from pre-existing hatred and vengeance... religion is used just as a social glue that tie the community together. Certain religion promote self-sacrifice, group loyalty, and strong brotherhood feelings, which is essential for the community survival. The idea of attacking someone or some prejudice toward certain behaviour or ideology came from outside religion.
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You may wonder; "Why not religion prevent violent behaviour? Why does it kept inciting people to slaughter animal, sacrifice their own, and remind them of torture and hell?". -I asked the same thing too, but... if religion is righteous, then perhaps violence must exist in human culture for us to survive. For example; According to the documentary "Gun, Germs and Steel", the technological prowess of ancient civilization is directly proportional to the presence of big livestock that they can slaughter and convert to labour. If human loves animal like Adi tribe do, then maybe they won't discover Cheese and crop plougher forever.
(original cheese has a very high energy content and has a long shelf-life. It has 70% fat and no moisture. When the milk protein is in-contact with enzymes in animal's intestine, it produce cheese -Tribe Adi doesn't discover this medieval-age food technology because they don't milk their mithuns... They love their mithuns...)
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note; Both Adi and Suri are isolated from major world religion. -This was mentioned in the documentary. Some of this tribe is protected by UNESCO (true?), as world's heritage.
ثم عاد العضو الأول{Laughing Bear} ورد عليه بالتالي ولاحظوا خطورة كلام هذا الزنديق
Msafwan argues that mankind is intrinsically amoral, and without love of our brothers in mankind.
This is a very old justification for imposing a false reality map that justifies tyranny.
Hatred and vengeance are hallmarks of the dark side, of those who have turned their backs on God.
Those who obey the voices of the dark side cannot be redeemed by religion or threats of torture.
They have submitted to the heirarchy of the undead, and lose the options of a true human.
This is a very old justification for imposing a false reality map that justifies tyranny.
Hatred and vengeance are hallmarks of the dark side, of those who have turned their backs on God.
Those who obey the voices of the dark side cannot be redeemed by religion or threats of torture.
They have submitted to the heirarchy of the undead, and lose the options of a true human.
Msafwan’s statement “The idea of attacking someone or some prejudice toward certain behaviour or ideology came from outside religion.” is entirely untrue. Look at Allah’s commandment that “Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live”. 100% owned by the dictator of Exodus and Leviticus.
The key to the confusion is in the purpose in that commandment :
how can it benefit an all-powerful Allah to command his slaves to kill those who disagree ?
Did Allah kill the Jinn when they refused his command to bow down to mankind ? No.
The Jinn are still busy bringing confusion and distress to humans.
So, why can the Jinn continue, while those who cultivate the ability to see beyond the material shall be murdered - not by Jehovah himself (who claims power over all things), but by his gullible slaves.
how can it benefit an all-powerful Allah to command his slaves to kill those who disagree ?
Did Allah kill the Jinn when they refused his command to bow down to mankind ? No.
The Jinn are still busy bringing confusion and distress to humans.
So, why can the Jinn continue, while those who cultivate the ability to see beyond the material shall be murdered - not by Jehovah himself (who claims power over all things), but by his gullible slaves.
Why exterminate the visionaries ?
The only answer that makes a commonsense understanding of that commandment
is that those who see beyond the prison of dogma,
those who see beyond beyond the dreariness of materialism
have the potential to discover the monstrous spiritual fraud that lies behind the dictates of Allah.
The only answer that makes a commonsense understanding of that commandment
is that those who see beyond the prison of dogma,
those who see beyond beyond the dreariness of materialism
have the potential to discover the monstrous spiritual fraud that lies behind the dictates of Allah.
To reveal that the Allahs (note that they speak to us from the plural) are parasites upon mankind
is the most potent threat to their food supply and their endless self-importance.
And it is only now, with the anonymity conferred by the internet,
that those who see the truth of the matter can publish without being murdered.
is the most potent threat to their food supply and their endless self-importance.
And it is only now, with the anonymity conferred by the internet,
that those who see the truth of the matter can publish without being murdered.
That is why this seems to be a new perspective - because it has been censored from the thinking of all societies that have been conquered by the evil religions contrived by these deceitful parasites
who prey on blood spilled and the intensity of mankind’s misery.
who prey on blood spilled and the intensity of mankind’s misery.
My people had an etiqette for violence.
A coherent and decent set of principles that kept our tribes safe and spiritually thriving,
living for thousands of years in a measure of freedom that is unthinkable to those Americans
who shout that they champion freedom.
A coherent and decent set of principles that kept our tribes safe and spiritually thriving,
living for thousands of years in a measure of freedom that is unthinkable to those Americans
who shout that they champion freedom.
We were exteminated by the Spanish Taliban, who came with the Conqistadores.
Dressed in the robes of priests and Inquistors, they committed cultural genocide on every tribe,
strictly according to the rules of religion.
Dressed in the robes of priests and Inquistors, they committed cultural genocide on every tribe,
strictly according to the rules of religion.
And the Bluecoat soldiers came with their forked tongues, treaties forever, and poisoned food.
Those lackeys of Jehovah did murder wholesale, directed by the greedy christians in Washington.
Those lackeys of Jehovah did murder wholesale, directed by the greedy christians in Washington.
We knew that to deceive was a form of spiritual violence,
and we punished the liar with banishment or public death.
and we punished the liar with banishment or public death.
The liar is a killer of trust.
The liar poisons the tribal virtues of generosity and wisdom.
The liar poisons the tribal virtues of generosity and wisdom.
The hallmark of a lie is internal contradiction.
The many contradictions in the words of Allah point to the deception that they imposed.
The many contradictions in the words of Allah point to the deception that they imposed.
If you truly seek to know God, then disposing of deception is a necessary principle
which must be diligently employed.
Laughing Bear
which must be diligently employed.
Laughing Bear
“Nothing is hidden so much that it wouldn’t be revealed through its fruit”. Paracelsus
رد العضو الآخر{{ Msafwan بهذا الرد
You're right Laughing Bear... people aren't inherently evil.
You're right Laughing Bear... people aren't inherently evil.
-I agree because I found a forum where everyone is a moderator (lolz) but nothing bad had happened, also; the documentaries didn't show any evil nature in native tribe people.
But that doesn't mean people weren't violent (or overly loving). The documentary did show that one tribe like to mutilate people, and another tribe like to pamper their mithuns. It is just this:- some violence is socially accepted such that it incurred no evil thought.
So, you're suggesting that; religion had POISONED humankind with "evil" thought?? -I believe your rational was this:- the Conqistadores (and Taliban) "thought" it is alright to kill infidels, (so they killed them all!), but... since that behaviour is unjustifiable with respect to the native tribe, therefore that action is considered "evil". You believe this "evil" "thought" came from religion.
I disagree. The "evil" "thought" is the product of the human mind itself. Religion only said a very basic things; such as a story about Abraham sacrificing his son, or the torture of hell, but it is human mind themselves that conjure conclusion that lead to a (negative) behavioural change. For example; the king of Spanish may set-up a "special" church to propagate his own idea about his religion (so that he can send Conqistadores to the new world!).
The existent of many church and many bible, prove-it that our mind do conjures tricks to create "evil" "thought". You may not realize it, but... we, the 'childrens' have opinion about many stuff(s), and this opinion may be shared by the populous of childrens in silence. When one children finally voiced out this populist idea, then the populist agree and then this is considered true. Afterward, this childrens will bring a baby to this world, and this babies will take this populist idea as dogma. -That's how "evil" "thought" is created.
Sometimes it is good to -NOT SPEAK. Surely we don't want a populist idea to be facts, right? -this is important:- everyone will came to a "populist idea" phase when they're young... even physicist do! In my experience:- kids (I heard them said it) and once-a-kid (me too!), often reach to a point where we assumed magnetism is an electron flowing thru air (this is not true! not even taught in syllabus!!)
I... I understand the nature of this misconceptions. Trust me, people do it all the time! I know because I do it too... fortunately I'm a reserved person, so I don't yell about it (hence suffered no loss in self-esteem).
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I hope... I get my point across.
This is soo confusing...
This is soo confusing...
عاد العضو الأول{{ Laughing Bear ورد عليه بالآتي
Dear Msafwan,
Dear Msafwan,
You are starting to get the picture. But it cannot be explained away by mundane ideas that have acceptance in the popular wisdom.
And the full picture is much bigger than the straightforward conclusion that some religions were designed and imposed to make mankind violent, stupid and spiritually docile.
And the full picture is much bigger than the straightforward conclusion that some religions were designed and imposed to make mankind violent, stupid and spiritually docile.
I do not agree that my silence would serve the highest good of all concerned.
Certainly, what is being disclosed can cause some people to be emotional in an unhealthy way.
This I know very well, because in order to maintain my integrity I often refuse to agree with
ideas that are absurd or selfish.
And almost everybody dislikes me for refusing to agree,
for my refusal to endorse their carelessness, or their hidden agenda.
Certainly, what is being disclosed can cause some people to be emotional in an unhealthy way.
This I know very well, because in order to maintain my integrity I often refuse to agree with
ideas that are absurd or selfish.
And almost everybody dislikes me for refusing to agree,
for my refusal to endorse their carelessness, or their hidden agenda.
I cannot agree that this aberration in thinking is a natural part of mankind.
Now that I have come to understand what prevents us from living out our true nature,
to speak of my discovery is a moral necessity.
Now that I have come to understand what prevents us from living out our true nature,
to speak of my discovery is a moral necessity.
A necessity because I dare to care.
Not just about the suffering of mankind in their boxed thinking and truncated consciousness,
but also because I care about the Creator, who divided HirSelf so that consciousness
could experience and grow and converse - and by that division into sovereign entities
gain a greater and more compassionate wisdom.
Not just about the suffering of mankind in their boxed thinking and truncated consciousness,
but also because I care about the Creator, who divided HirSelf so that consciousness
could experience and grow and converse - and by that division into sovereign entities
gain a greater and more compassionate wisdom.
Those who cheat mankind of their full consciousness cheat also the Creator,
who invested HirSelf with such courage and faith into the diverse peoples of the Universe.
That Creator has my loyalty, my willingness to risk my own existence
in the service and protection of that heroic act of dividing HirSelf.
I will not be politely silent in a matter as important is this.
who invested HirSelf with such courage and faith into the diverse peoples of the Universe.
That Creator has my loyalty, my willingness to risk my own existence
in the service and protection of that heroic act of dividing HirSelf.
I will not be politely silent in a matter as important is this.
There is a stark disparity in mankind’s abilities.
And this contradiction is pointing towards a hidden factor in our reality.
We have robots at work on Mars, thanks to the NASA engineers and mankind’s aspirations,
and at the same time we live in a social madness
that demands conformity while claiming freedom,
that worships a god who (in the Koran) admits to cruel intentions towards unbelievers,
shaping a society that has silenced your conscience out of the need to be accepted.
And this contradiction is pointing towards a hidden factor in our reality.
We have robots at work on Mars, thanks to the NASA engineers and mankind’s aspirations,
and at the same time we live in a social madness
that demands conformity while claiming freedom,
that worships a god who (in the Koran) admits to cruel intentions towards unbelievers,
shaping a society that has silenced your conscience out of the need to be accepted.
How is it that mankind can be brilliantly inventive in technology,
and yet we betray each other in every conversation by lying about ourselves ?
and yet we betray each other in every conversation by lying about ourselves ?
This is not a trivial or academic question.
This question is of the utmost importance, if we are ever to claim our birthright, our identity.
This question is of the utmost importance, if we are ever to claim our birthright, our identity.
Something is deliberately sabotaging our potential.
And that Something has no love, not for mankind nor the Creator.
Islam is one of the fruits of that Something, that poisonous tree,
and I am not here referring to the tree of knowledge of good and evil,
which was forbidden to mankind by the Jehovahs.
And that Something has no love, not for mankind nor the Creator.
Islam is one of the fruits of that Something, that poisonous tree,
and I am not here referring to the tree of knowledge of good and evil,
which was forbidden to mankind by the Jehovahs.
Why would they forbid the one knowledge that enables our independance from moral dogma ?
Because they intend to engineer our consciousness into that of a compliant prey,
by imposing a religion of empty promises and horrible threats.
Because they intend to engineer our consciousness into that of a compliant prey,
by imposing a religion of empty promises and horrible threats.
I sympathise with your confusion : this is not a sweet or easy idea.
But in the many times I have come to an unfamiliar scientific discipline
each time, the path to competence began in confusion and discomfort,
regardless of prior accomplishments.
But in the many times I have come to an unfamiliar scientific discipline
each time, the path to competence began in confusion and discomfort,
regardless of prior accomplishments.
To succeed in any endeavour, we must endure the discomfort of beginning with an inadequate understanding.
Such is Life, and the rewards of living (wisdom and happiness) go to the brave and the diligent.
Such is Life, and the rewards of living (wisdom and happiness) go to the brave and the diligent.
There are indeed times when it is wise to be silent,
while we prepare a controversial discovery for publication,
or in the presence of a dangerous enemy.
while we prepare a controversial discovery for publication,
or in the presence of a dangerous enemy.
For me, that time of preparation has been been served,
and now I am ready to answer any questions that are asked,
and to answer the threats that are written in the Koran.
and now I am ready to answer any questions that are asked,
and to answer the threats that are written in the Koran.
What is Islam ?
Herein is my answer to this important question.
Herein is my answer to this important question.
ذهلت لكلام العضو الأول وسبه لله وللأسلام تعالى الله عما يقول علوا كبيرا ورأيت انه لابد ان ارد عليه فأنا من فتح الموضوع ابتداء
لذا فأنا هنا لأخذ آرائكم ولطلب المساعده فأنتم اعلم مني بالرد على الشبهات
أسأل الله ان يثيبكم ولا يحرمكم اجر المساعده على نصرة هذا الدين ونشره
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